Bovy Thodore Joseph production. Bernard Lambert It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. Its weight The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? These firearms We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof that we have found on this subject. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. Armourers marks are quite distinct from proof-marks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. Baron Emile Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. listed in alphabetical order. Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose. The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. Where did you find the Falla mark? JavaScript is disabled. Colard Louis - Counet Lonard Bouquin Ad to share our findings by this means of communication. ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. It was mandatory post-1924. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Beuret Frres Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! Belgian Liege gunmakers (G to K) - Volume 3 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. Thanks so much. If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. A "Greener" double? Ad Categories: Pre-1840. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). Gun Barrel Proof Marks - Dave Cushman Marlin-Savage-Winchester Search. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. I recently decided to clean it up. location, rather than a manufacturer. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum Please - no questions about your old guns. Bischop Pierre When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. Christophe Henri Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. Members . Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. As I've said, I'm not an expert. Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Your help is appreciated. this book online and pay it through Paypal. The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) Any help would be appreciated. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Serial Numbers. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. ELG Belgian markings | The Firearms Forum BRITTE, BURY AND OTHERS Magic of hunting gun For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. . A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. %PDF-1.3 barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many thank you. so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. Heyday of the Shotgun: The art of the gunmaker at the turn of the last century. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his Information, NRA Mark for optional superior provisional proof. Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . Miscellaneous The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). Closset J.M. I can send pictures of it. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. Do you have any information on them? Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. In addition to Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is Bazin F.J. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. significance or purpose. Designates rifled barrel. I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. Thanks. The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. Chaineux J. B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications, There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. 1840-1860. Ever seen that? Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. By Alain Daubresse. Ancion Jacques & Cie Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). Bayet Frres Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture We have provided you Any idea what it all means? Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Mauser Serial Numbers DatabaseMAUSER PISTOLC-96 (BROOMHANDLE)DATES OF I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. Identification on a Belgian Liege musket, real or repro? These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. Bernard Ernest thanks for the help so far. Proof [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. Due to the Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. Belgian Best Shotguns - CHUCKHAWKS.COM for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. Testing the gun Hi, Jeremy. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. Coquilhat Aim Closset Louis - Remy Hubert I think it was made 1890 but not sure. for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage. 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. Can you send me some, Ed? proof marks. Nowadays these firearms are mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence. Prices: side-by-side, from 53,000 + VAT; over-and-under, from 65,000 + VAT. Consignment Sale Information. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). Tel: 01707 709372; Bettonville - Fontaine Burlet The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. Thanks! Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. . Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . IMPORTANT NOTE! Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Sorry! 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. Arnold Mathias Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). Pictures would help! This printed Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. How Foreign Guns Invaded the U.S. - Bloomberg.com ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history.
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